Creating a Folk Music Hall of Fame is problemmatic because of its international range -- country music and rock are historically within the U.S. (obviously, some influence came from immigration, but I think there is consensus that the roots of rock and country are within the U.S.). Not so with folk music. So unless you define the parameters, the Folk Music Hall of Fame would have to be internationally defined and constituted.
If we were to understand the Folk Music Hall of Fame as a western institution (i.e., not considering 2nd world or 3rd world peoples' music), then I would have to say, of course, that the inaugural induction class must rest on the "holy trinity" of Leadbetter, Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger.
But again, this is very problemmatic, and quickly lends itself to being elitist. And frankly, I don't know the icons of other cultures that well. But clearly, I would think we need to include representation from all cultures, not just western ones.
The first member should be Anonymous. Maybe the first few thousand members.
Jim, I certainly agree that we'll need a wing or two for anonymous (living in Switzerland, I'd support a Room of the Unknown Yodeler).
Penny, your points are well taken; folk is the broadest of all the musical churches. In my Hall of Fame fantasies, I envisioned a destination where visitors could be educated and folk music perpetuated (if you build it, they will hum).
I suppose that a real-world brick and mortar Folkie Hall of Fame would have to focus somewhat; those would be hard lines to draw! And the location. . .?
Why not an American Folk Music Hall of Fame. Not to deny the infuence of other cultures, certainly well represented in the contributions of our greatest living folkie, Pete Seeger, my first nominee. After all there are a couple of obscure British groups in Cleveland aren't there. It's not like we're claiming it all started here. If that's too much of an injustice, I'm sure someone could write a song aboout it.
Good topic!
I think America needs a folk music hall of fame and I would put it in Chicago because so much of the folk music from the 1930's was focused on the labor movement and its struggles right here in the Windy City. There is no reason that it could not include an international wing to show all the influences of traditional folk music from around the world. Then, a major city in various other countries around the world could have their own branch as a syndicate of halls of fame. They could share exhibits by rotating them from branch to branch and they could help fill in the history of a genre from their own unique perspectives so that the American Folk Music Hall of Fame also has non-American viewpoints to share, and vice-versa.
My first thought was of a multi-roomed center with a core exhibit and side rooms for American regional and historical influences, also international. And there need not be just ONE Folk Music Hall of Fame! There could be several across the country & they could share exhibits like the Karpeles Manuscript Library Museum. Of course, other countries should do the same thing & we could share exhibits as we have shared music!
Hmmm. On Behalf of my fellow Chicagoans, I accept the nomination and would hope to house it at the Old Town School of Folk Music or at the University of Chicago- Hyde Park.
I think this is a great idea and I think regional repositories/Halls of Fame would be wonderful! We could easily set them up at the Smithsonian, Bethlehem, PA (SING OUT!), OTSFM here in the Windy City, a Center in Okemah, OK, another in Austin, TX, etc. etc.. and help fund them from a single major fund to which we could donate, do fundraisers for and the like and share the wealth. The centers could ship exhibits, we could put more things on-line to share.
Ah, beautiful!
Well, the Cleveland area is home to the Cleveland-style polka hall of fame, so why not set up Folk Music halls of fame in numerous locations - reflecting the local influences? Minnesota for Bob Dylan, Seattle for caffeine, Boston for kids who want to throw away a decent education to become singer-songwriters, etc.
I nominate Arizona, since so many Folk fans are retiring here. We can put it at the end of one of the golf courses, with a place to park your little cart right in front.
Folk music became accessible to millions as a result of the work of singer-songwriters back in the 60's -- Dylan, Baez, Joni Mitchell, Judy Collins, etc.-- who deserve as much 'credit' as the founding fathers, I feel. And the new folk music was more 'musical' and drew in more listeners. I think of Boston and New York as the breeding ground for these contemporary folk artists, and the appropriate place for a hall of fame.
One issue is that folk music perhaps more than other genres is very hard to define or classify-- eg many artists write or perfom some songs that are clearly 'folk', but others that are rock, or country or whatever.
New York has enough, let somebody else have the fun. Actually, there's enough on the East Coast. There's lots more room out here in the middle (and we're more centrally located).
Plus, it would be in good company here. There's the aforementioned Cleveland-style Polka HOF, the Rock 'n' Roll HOF, the Pro Football HOF, the Inventor's HOF - all within easy driving distance.
mmmm.............is this JUST an American Folk Music site? I looked for Eric Bogle and couldn't find hin!!! HELP!!
Aileen - We play Eric Bogle, plus a lot of international artists. Right now, the search engine only looks through the blog, not the playlists (stay tuned, it's on our list of new functionality), so we just haven't discussed him yet. I saw Eric Bogle play as part of the Kent State Folk Festival a few years back and it was a transcendent evening of music.
Folk Hall of Fame should definitely be centrally located. How about near the Arch in St Louis? Or down in one of those Missouri salt mines?
That way, when everyone blows themselves to kingdom come, there'll still be some Lindisfarne CDs left on the planet.
Way, Way too hot in the summer, Jim.
Besides, East St. Louis would get jealous.
Also- too close to Branson, MO.
Think how much better the lyrics would go over down in those salt tunnels - start the tune, shut off the lights "...dark as a dungeon, way down in the mine."
So, then, we'd really have the Hall O'Fame in the salt mines...
Naw, too close to the Newlywed Game Theater in Branson...
How about Okemah, Okla. Birthplace of Woody Guthrie. The site could also symbolize the dustbowl era that american folk music grew from
I thought I already suggested that....
I thought I already suggested that....
But I don't think you can claim American folk music started with Woody. That would blow off all the hollers, bluses, ballads, Child ballad changes, minstral show tunes, Carter Family, cowboy sogs, etc,. etc.
There is no single perfect place that will satisfy all elements of folk music, so you pick one and highlight its uniqueness, then go on and include as much else as possible. The suggestion to have them regionally throughout the US and also in other countries in a syndicate, I think, is a great approach. Of course, the first one will be built wherever the funds are made available. It may not be given to us to decide.
I like the looks of this new page, but it takes FOREVER to load and many elements are not working, yet.
Well, wherever it's built, the museum itslef should be a replica of a Unitarian church with relatively uncomfortable folding chairs that are set up and taken down in record time by nameless volunteers. Also, there should be the overwhelming aroma of coffee pumped throughout the facility at all times, along with endless plates of brownies and organic cookies. The tour must definitely include a replica of "An Artist's Green Room" which also doubles as the children's Sunday School room or Bridal room. :)
Regionally, my vote would be the South or Appalachian area since, historically, that's where the "music of the folk" originated. And, frankly, the Country Music Hall of Fame in Nashville devotes a lot of its "hall" to American roots and folk music, dating back to the 1600s.
There is no place like our local libraries for a true folk music hall of fame. Easy access to lyrics, music, song circle rooms, writing classes, internet access, etceteras. Folk music has everything to do with just plain folks and so little to do with plaster busts of Tom Lehrer or the complete works of Bob Dylan on convenient 45 RPM records. Send your local library a donation earmarked for the support of folk music collections and volunteer to make your local hall of fame the best in the US!
There is a treasure trove of folk songs locked in the archives of local and university libraries that needs to be set free. Maybe this could be the first goal of the multi-located Folk Music Hall of Fame.
Charlie, you got me to thinking. Besides libraries, how many non-profits like the Old Town School of Music are there out there that not only teach but provide research information, concerts, festivals, song circles and the like.
I was thinking it wouldn;t be that far of a stretch to turn the organization I handle communications for, The Plank Road Folk Music Society (plug: www.plankroad.org), could easily handle such duties at the local and regional level as could all the other organizations.
I often thought a newsletter exchange could evolve into a folk music information service for news, song swaps and the like.
Hmmm.
Not much cash involved, mebbe the Folk Alliance might want to handle coordination?
Cheap. Grass roots. kewl!
A year or two ago, I was in the Big Apple and stumbled upon a listing for a "folk music museum" in Greenwich Village. I tried to call to discover its hours, but only got a machine with a nondescript message.
Does anyone know if the museum ever got up and running? It was supposed to be located on West 86th Street; Art D'Lugoff was the Executive Director. I suspect that the museum doesn't exist anymore, since there's no Web site.
All this is to say--if there's a folk music museum, it might make sense to have the Hall of Fame there.
However, I do like some of the suggestions about having regional centers, each with their own distinctive flavor.
I also like the idea of forming some sort of information network--there are many wellsprings of information, training, and inspiration out there.
I always thought a Hall of Fame began with an organization and the initial inductees. Later, as support and contributions grew, a location would be selected. Often, cities have competed financially for the honor (and tourist dollars). Cleveland won the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame that way.
I'd like to see the organization grow out of the internet community (for openers). Does anyone know how other Halls of Fame began organizing?
As for locations, Washington, DC has a claim, since the Library of Congress (Alan Lomax) did much to bring the music out of obscurity. ...and the city gets so many visitors, the Hall of Fame would get a lot more than in many other locations.
Fred makes a great point - with the Folklife Archives at the Library of Congress already, DC would be a natural. There are tons of Folk venues there, and the incredible people in the Folklore Society of Greater Washington are already building a strong, vibrant series of shows, retreats and festivals.
Mary Cliff's "Traditions" on WETA-FM could be the Official Folk Hall of Fame Radio Show, syndicated to hundreds of stations around the world.
So how do we make this happen?
Yeah, well I thought about the Library of Congress already. I was just hoping it would be relocating to Oak Park. Just seems like a good idea to me!
:-)
Hi Kids--I love the energy that this is generating. Jim and Jack, I think that the Library of Congress's American Folklife staff should be part of this discussion. I've just written to them suggesting that they join us here. I'm impressed by the work that they're doing already and I have the feeling that some hearts are already in the right places. Jack, the Library of Congress would fit right in to Oak Park (have you cleared it with the neighbors?).
Oak Park already has Frank Lloyd and Unity Church, hence I must protest and suggest Naperville, we need something to offset the Yuppie image the nation's third best place to live in has acquired! Roots music be just dug thing!
I can go along with Washington, but I think we need to have regional flavor, players and musics.
Or annual Folk tours, combining music with historical displays. That would be cool, each region having a satellite branch that would host the event as it comes through. Just Plain Folks is laying the groundwork for just this sort of mobile music fest, has anyone else out there heard of them?
Naperville is a wasteland. It's only good for watching farmland get swallowed up by large fields of tract homes.
Traditional vs modern. Handmade vs commercial. These tensions have, as you said, existed throughout all time. My concern is that when you take an art whose charm and appeal and uniqueness comes from its idiosyncratic traditions, which makes each piece a self-contained, discrete piece of beauty, and then commercialize it, which means modifying it to fit some notion of uniformity; when you take the rough edges off, when you shed the individual, discrete nature of each piece -- then, I fear you cut the heart out of the art itself.
You can rework a folk song to make it more commerical in style, and many do, and admittedly, you have to live in the real world and artists have to make a living, etc., but don't kid youself: when you add layers of production values onto a Child Ballad that was originally played on a lute accompanied by one, unmicrophoned voice, a big precious piece that defines the art is lost.
Yes, a Folk Hall of Fame would likely start at a single location, and everybody wants it in their backyard (vs. nimby)! That's why I think any good start should consider future locations/franchises. As for the reference to a church- many beautiful churches are being shut down, or considered for shut down in Buffalo, N.Y. Anni DiFranco is converting one! While these are priceless buildings, they often have limited alternative use. I think any church group would let go of an old church for a "well organised" & fitting proposal such as a Folk Music Hall of Fame.
[Mucho bucks for repairs & proper remodeling]
Heard a great show last night rough edges and all - Judy Collins sang "Amazing Grace" a capella in the Ryman, Arlo was there, and Emmylou, and Solomon Burke, and Steve Earle - a long list of great talent, all standing together on an Americana stage. Awesome.
This music does not need a shave.
So many great ideas, but, may I make a suggestion?
Create the HOF by way of the internet. "Folk music" is universal.It touches all parts of the universe and is accessible to everyone in one form or another wheather they realize it or not.
Much less politicizing of locations and far less $$$ required.
I think the foothills of Appalachia would be the best place for a HOF.
And no, I'm not trying to be funny or disrespectful.
I thought DC was the foothills of Appalachia?
I thought Oak Park was in the foothills of Appalachia?
"Folk music" is universal it is .... it is ...
maybe this will be the specialty of HOF
no bounderies ... no special place ...
I would like to see .. P seeger , Woody ...
Dylan ... Baez ... jimmie rodgers .. !!
but what about the fairport convesion ..
steeleye span !?!?!
Feter: AMURICAN Folk Music Hall of Fame.
Oak Park could be the dirty toe-nail of the foothils of the Appalachians, Jim (grim), Naperville, however, is still the third best place in the country to live (snicker).
Seriously, though, seems to me that Washington has enough stuff. If we decide the regions aren't going to go (which I thinks is a major shame), then how about some place that actually needs and wants us? Like mebbe Hiltons Virgina, site of the Carter Family Memorial Center (after all, they started the popularization of the music) or Naperville?
Folk Music Hall of Fame in Greenwich Village. If you want it more central, positively on 4th Street near the University of Minnesota, or Highway 61 (also in Minneapolis). Hibbing is a little too far out of the way.
I've read every comment shown here on the subject of a Hall Of Fame for American folk music. Seems like almost everyone wants it either in their back yard or someplace that gets very cold in the winter, (D.C., N.Y., etc.), has misquitos that will carry off your volkswagon in the summer, (Minn., Ill., St Louis, etc.), or is the birthplace of one or more folk icons. Lots of you "east coasters" out there seem to think it should be someplace on the east cost. No one mentioned Philly by the way. Very central location. So, how about a location with mostly nice weather year 'round, like maybe San Diego? I don't really like San Diego but I think the location would be ideal. Besides, we could surf other things besides the net...with real surf.
Hey, they surf here in Lake Michigan, too! A girl I work with just had a surfboard delivered to our office in the Sears Tower! I believe that could be a first, but there are a few hearty souls who surf here.
I flew over Lake Michigan once. It was closed. Iced actually. More like a good place for ice boating, ice fishing, ice skating, ice cycles and ice done with this.
It is high time for an American Folk Music Hall of Fame. Location it seems to me, should be somewhere on the east coast, VA or KY or NC or TN, major centers traditionaly for folk music. Having been involved with the development of the World Golf Hall of Fame in Florida, I can tell you that it is tough to do but that a Hall of Fame can be done. You will be surprised, among aging early boomers, as to who would support such a projcet.
if i'm not mistaken, isn't the building of a "folk hall of fame" mentioned somewhere in revelation? is it actually going to be composed of "ticky-tacky"? will it really be completely (99.99%) funded by p.r. conscious corporate "angels"? ... shake hands with the devil baby!!!
Definitely DC.
As for shaking hands with the corporate devil, music's been doing that since about 2500 BC. If you want your music heard, the first rule has always been - find a rich patron.
Imagining a charter group in the Folk Music Hall of Fame one must consider the important early influences of people like Almeda Riddle, John Jacob Niles, and Richard Dyer Bennet among others. After these should come the folk revivalists and singer/songwriters of the 50's and 60's.
Lead Belly
Woody Guthrie
Pete Seeger
Bob Dylan
Joan Baez
Judy Collins
Leonard Cohen
The Kingston Trio
Lead Belly
Woody Guthrie
Pete Seeger
Bob Dylan
Joan Baez
Judy Collins
Leonard Cohen
Peter, Paul & Mary
If only we still had Burl Ives to MC the opening. (I like the idea of Philadelphia, PA).
The 2nd Induction Ceremony
The Kingston Trio
Lead Belly
Woody Guthrie
Pete Seeger
Bob Dylan
Joan Baez
Judy Collins
Joni Mitchell
Leonard Cohen
Peter, Paul & Mary
Do you have any idea when and where The Folk Music Hall of Fame will be opened. Which would be the appropriate city for it? Is anybody working on it? There should only be one Folk Music Hall of Fame in the U.S., complete with a website and online biographies of the inductees, just like the Songwriters Hall of Fame and the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame.
http://www.rockhall.com
http://www.songhall.org
...And maybe there shouldn't even be nominations and voting on who will be inducted when it comes to the artists from the 40s, 50s, and 60s. They should just automatically be inducted.
Almeda Riddle, John Jacob Niles, Richard Dyer Bennet, The Kingston Trio, Lead Belly, Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Leonard Cohen, Laura Nyro, Melanie, Peter, Paul & Mary, John Denver, Jim Croce, Gordon Lightfoot, Fairport Convention, Richard Thompson, Linda Thompson.
Do you have any idea when and where The Folk Music Hall of Fame will be opened. Which would be the appropriate city for it? Is anybody working on it? There should only be one Folk Music Hall of Fame in the U.S., complete with a website and online biographies of the inductees, just like the Songwriters Hall of Fame and the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame.
http://www.rockhall.com
http://www.songhall.org
...And maybe there shouldn't even be nominations and voting on who will be inducted when it comes to the artists from the 40s, 50s, and 60s. They should just automatically be inducted.
Almeda Riddle, John Jacob Niles, Richard Dyer Bennet, The Kingston Trio, Lead Belly, Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Leonard Cohen, Laura Nyro, Melanie, Peter, Paul & Mary, Phil Ochs, John Denver, Jim Croce, Gordon Lightfoot, Fairport Convention, Richard Thompson, Linda Thompson.
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Folk Music Hall of Fame
